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Post by ann- on Aug 3, 2010 6:59:51 GMT -7
Ann, I'm glad they are getting you fixed up....and YES variflex ankles do take some practice. Did they send your feet back for a smaller size? You said they didn't fit your shoes.  Should be the same size shoe, Ann ... but am sure my other feet were a bit wider, and perhaps longer, so of course all my shoes are stretched that much wider. Suppose its a good excuse to buy some new shoes, but want to make sure I am keeping the feet first ... seem to be getting used to them, just slightly wobbly when walking outside. Did you change to variflex ankles (from fixed) and how did you find them? Did it take you long to get used to them? |
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ann58
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Post by ann58 on Aug 4, 2010 6:39:57 GMT -7
Ann, I went from an ossur elation{changable heights} to eschelon. I will say it does take some time to get your balance. You are doing great & remember you are a double amp. I imagine that would take longer.
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Post by ann- on Aug 4, 2010 23:45:26 GMT -7
Ann, I went from an ossur elation{changable heights} to eschelon. I will say it does take some time to get your balance. You are doing great & remember you are a double amp. I imagine that would take longer. Thanks Ann ..... I think its the feeling I am getting that I am 'now' not walking right ... and I felt that I was before. Also, a very wobbly feeling bit unbalanced, that I am not used to ..at the moment I am not seeing any advantages! |
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Post by tedatrowercpo on Aug 12, 2010 14:24:58 GMT -7
I have one observation; I have used Otto Bock Dynamic Plus that has a solid cosmesis moulded around the carbon fibre spring in the centre and also SACHS foot and both fill up the shoe much better than my Variflex with its crappy footshell. Also, I have pair of Crocs that I bought before I got my Variflex foot. I was able to use them with Otto Bock foot but now I cannot wear because there is too much empty space in the shoe with Variflex footshell. So I repeat: Is it worth to try to improve the gait with carbon fibre inner part of the foot when ill-fitting shoe puts you back right where you were with a simple SACHS foot, or maybe to even worse gait. A person who has a narrow foot is maybe fine with these narrow and low footshells and is lucky to be that way but there are also people who have wider feet who should not be ignored, to be fair to all. What you are describing is not a wide foot / narrow foot issue but a high instep / low instep issue. All the German feet are molded with high insteps, which also happens to be the kind of foot shape most common in Germany. (Almost all my clients with high arch problems are of German or east European ancestry.) In the past I have had to grind down the instep of Otto Bock SACH feet just so the amputee could fit the foot into their shoe. What you seem to want is for each manufacturer to produce multiple shapes of footshell in each size. I can assure you that this is not going to happen. The cost of developing molds for every size is already an incredible number. Producing more molds without increasing the number of units that can be sold is not a profitable strategy. The flexible struts you describe would not work as the footshell material is not elastic and cannot stretch to match the contours of the shoe. The stress loads on footshells are remarkable and the materials have to be very tough to survive. Imagine your little finger under the edge of a carbon fiber foot as it is repeatedly pressed against the floor with all your weight. If the footshell is collapsing just fill it's interior with firm foam. And I have to say it, Life is not fair. Basing your argument for any action on fairness is not likely to get you the results you want. I cannot remember that last time one of my clients selected what foot they wanted based upon how it would fit into a shoe. Until this is an issue that will drive amputees to choose a particular product the manufacturers are not going to respond with the products you want. If you believe these products would sell then you should develop them and bring them to market. |
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Post by kapteenkoukku on Aug 12, 2010 20:58:38 GMT -7
So it seems that my next foot has to be Otto Bock if only Otto Bock is the one higher. I have an exoskeletal spare leg which has China made SACHS foot, a copy of Otto Bock that fills up the shoe much better. And if I compare the width with my Variflex it is also wider. And it is cheap.
And Ted you maybe right about Germanic high arched people. I have heard to be said that people of Mediterranian origin have narrow feet whereas Nordic people have higher arch and wider foot. Maybe hight and width come together. I am a Nordic which means Germanic and have Scandinavian, German and Dutch bloodlines.
I have not tried that great many feet but I feel Variflex is a big mistake. Apart from foot not fitting to my shoe if my sound side is right, I do not feel walking with this Variflex is any different from SACHS foot. Otto Bock Dynamic Plus has given me definately the best gait so far. If my spareleg's socket was better I would switch to using it full time and keep the one with Variflex as a spare. Unfortunatelly that socket allows my stump to spin in it and after some brisk walking the foot is going to other direction than my nose is pointing.
I have not had any problem fitting the higher Otto Bock and SACHS foot into shoe because I do not use ballerina shoes. And by saying that the shoes are also made differently for their users, Nordics cannot use Italian shoes because they make the feet hurt, the German/ Scandinavian shoes do not hurt and are more of the shape of our Nordics' feet, brands like Ecco for example.
Profits... That is what I was saying earlier, money and sense are the only ones driving prosthetics industry because there are no other stake holders in innovation than manufacturers themselves and the industry is not properly regulated. In many other industries there are R&D organisations who participate in innovation and are funded by Governments, industry associations, etc. Then there are international and national organisations and administrations that regulate the industries. So why the absense of such things in prosthetics industry, or is it so that amputees are just a pathetic bunch who just accept being lesser beings than those whose bodies are intact? If so, that is reflected in how the prosthetics industry and society at large treat us amputees.
As the owner of the prosthetics shop where I got my first couple of prostheses said to me: You now belong "them", meaning that I had lost more than my leg and not be accepted as normal being but to be hidden away and I must accept I also lost my dignity. And this guy owns a prosthetic shop!! If this is how people perceive us there is no hope, just lock them undesirables out of sight of decent people.
I think we indeed are a pathetic bunch if we do not have any will to change this perception and a will to build a united front to look after our interests.
And this is reflected also in hardware we get.
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Post by ann- on Aug 13, 2010 0:34:31 GMT -7
Ann, I'm glad they are getting you fixed up....and YES variflex ankles do take some practice. Did they send your feet back for a smaller size? You said they didn't fit your shoes. No, they reckon the silicon cover, which won't go on till happy with it all, will take up the room. However, there is an update, one of the sockets continually uncomfortable and playing havoc with the end of my stump so have now switched back to my old leg on that side ... with the old foot/socket my leg is much more comfortable and am better balanced despite wearing odd feet ... still think part of the problem is the socket fit, and set up of the leg, possibly not the feet .... have an appointment again this week so hope to get something sorted. |
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Post by ann- on Aug 13, 2010 0:53:45 GMT -7
I think we know that 'life is not fair", Ted. But why are modern prosthetic feet made so much narrower than they used to be ... thats the way it appears to me. Years ago, (and know I am going back here a bit, LOL) we were asked to supply the shoe first so the foot fitted it.
I was comparing my new feet with my old feet ... and my old feet actually look a lot more lifelike than the new feet .... I am not sure many people would have natural feet that narrow, which probably is the reason so many of us are having problems with shoes.
By the way. I kind of looked at these new feet, and thought that they just didn't look like 'my feet' ... got to mention here that the 'my feet' I am talking about are prosthetic and have been for 40 yrs, so am used to prosthetic feet. Am I being weird here ... and do others feel it odd when part of their prosthesis is changed and looks different (even without it feeling different).
Ann
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Post by tedatrowercpo on Aug 13, 2010 6:45:40 GMT -7
Profits... That is what I was saying earlier, money and sense are the only ones driving prosthetics industry because there are no other stake holders in innovation than manufacturers themselves and the industry is not properly regulated. In many other industries there are R&D organisations who participate in innovation and are funded by Governments, industry associations, etc. Then there are international and national organisations and administrations that regulate the industries. So why the absense of such things in prosthetics industry, The closest thing to this type of thing may be for profit R&D companies like Orthocare InnovationsYou may want to get involved with the Open Prosthetics ProjectRegulation of the profession is different in every country and in many regions there is no regulation at all. Even here in the USA I do not have to have a license to practice. Most of the third part payors require some sort of Certification but even this is not an absolute. The only real international organization, the International Society for Prosthetics & Orthotics sets standards for education and quality but they are entirely voluntary. |
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Post by bluedogz on Aug 15, 2010 16:25:25 GMT -7
Come to think of it, I do usually have this sot of trouble buying gloves.
But maybe that's different.
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Post by kapteenkoukku on Aug 19, 2010 3:52:28 GMT -7
Thanks Ted. This type of organisation woulds be good as a regulator, but would efficiently only work under auspices of UN and needs to have all stakeholders represented plus be in collaboration with WHO and perhaps some other UN organisations as well. However if ISPO is an organisation presently promoting professionalism of certain group of professionals only, it would not fit to UN or purpose. Open Prosthetics Project would be good if amputees participated in it by feedback and their own ideas. There are many well-meaning organisations, groups, etc. but they require involvement from concerned individuals hence no power. Governments should be involved in some UN lead organisation that recommends rules and regulations for industry which are then ratified by Member States who include the rules in their laws. |
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Post by oneblueleg on Aug 26, 2010 1:55:27 GMT -7
I have one observation; I have used Otto Bock Dynamic Plus that has a solid cosmesis moulded around the carbon fibre spring in the centre and also SACHS foot and both fill up the shoe much better than my Variflex with its crappy footshell. Also, I have pair of Crocs that I bought before I got my Variflex foot. I was able to use them with Otto Bock foot but now I cannot wear because there is too much empty space in the shoe with Variflex footshell. So I repeat: Is it worth to try to improve the gait with carbon fibre inner part of the foot when ill-fitting shoe puts you back right where you were with a simple SACHS foot, or maybe to even worse gait. A person who has a narrow foot is maybe fine with these narrow and low footshells and is lucky to be that way but there are also people who have wider feet who should not be ignored, to be fair to all. What you are describing is not a wide foot / narrow foot issue but a high instep / low instep issue. All the German feet are molded with high insteps, which also happens to be the kind of foot shape most common in Germany. (Almost all my clients with high arch problems are of German or east European ancestry.) In the past I have had to grind down the instep of Otto Bock SACH feet just so the amputee could fit the foot into their shoe. What you seem to want is for each manufacturer to produce multiple shapes of footshell in each size. I can assure you that this is not going to happen. The cost of developing molds for every size is already an incredible number. Producing more molds without increasing the number of units that can be sold is not a profitable strategy. The flexible struts you describe would not work as the footshell material is not elastic and cannot stretch to match the contours of the shoe. The stress loads on footshells are remarkable and the materials have to be very tough to survive. Imagine your little finger under the edge of a carbon fiber foot as it is repeatedly pressed against the floor with all your weight. If the footshell is collapsing just fill it's interior with firm foam. And I have to say it, Life is not fair. Basing your argument for any action on fairness is not likely to get you the results you want. I cannot remember that last time one of my clients selected what foot they wanted based upon how it would fit into a shoe. Until this is an issue that will drive amputees to choose a particular product the manufacturers are not going to respond with the products you want. If you believe these products would sell then you should develop them and bring them to market. I couldn't have put it better myself, so I'll just quote you Ted. Many apologies Kap, I didn't mean to sound belittling or insulting. However, I do happen to think that the width of a foot isn't very high up on my list of priorities when it comes to my artificial limb. To suggest there's no innovation going on because you feel there isn't a suitable footshape for you is unfair. There's plenty of innovation going on, but it's in more functional areas maybe. I don't think profits is a dirty word, profits pay for innovation, that's good. Innovation doesn't come cheap. Ted is right, there has to be some financial justification for developing a product, the demand needs to be there for the money to be spent, it's the world we live in. |
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Post by ann- on Aug 26, 2010 5:39:49 GMT -7
Many apologies Kap, I didn't mean to sound belittling or insulting. However, I do happen to think that the width of a foot isn't very high up on my list of priorities when it comes to my artificial limb. To suggest there's no innovation going on because you feel there isn't a suitable footshape for you is unfair. There's plenty of innovation going on, but it's in more functional areas maybe. I don't think profits is a dirty word, profits pay for innovation, that's good. Innovation doesn't come cheap. Ted is right, there has to be some financial justification for developing a product, the demand needs to be there for the money to be spent, it's the world we live in. See your point OBL ... but wonder how much affect the width of the foot has on balance, particularly for bilaterals. Maybe the footshape is more applicable to us ladies ... particularly having the foot fit the shoe just from a practical sense of keeping it on. For myself I am back to my old feet . Maybe I had just gone too many years to change ... or maybe they just weren't set up right ....but am back to normal now, aches gone and balance back to normal. |
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ann58
Female Member
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Post by ann58 on Aug 26, 2010 8:20:49 GMT -7
Sorry you couldn't make those new feet work for you.
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Post by ann- on Aug 26, 2010 10:46:05 GMT -7
Sorry you couldn't make those new feet work for you. I know Ann, but was happy with what I was using anyway, and hadn't thought about changing. The ones I had may be pretty basic but I can walk on all terrains and don't have any problems with hills etc. ... its much more important for me to feel balanced and stable. |
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ann58
Female Member
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Post by ann58 on Aug 27, 2010 19:02:00 GMT -7
You got that right! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 23:20:17 GMT -7
Delete.
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Post by allenuk on Apr 30, 2012 0:50:49 GMT -7
Agreed, J., generally - foot shells on their own are only something to hold a shoe, but they do have to function properly in that! A loose shell is a hazard, of course, as is too small a shell.
Now shoes, there's a different matter. My shoes of choice have big wide soles and heels, providing a much more stable platform than 'regular' lounge-type shoes. They are in fact a bit big for my shell, but I take up the slack with bits of hard rubber - makes them pretty solid.
A.
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Post by stonecutter on Apr 30, 2012 6:48:18 GMT -7
. ..shoes of choice have big wide soles and heels, providing a much more stable platform than 'regular' lounge-type shoes.... Me too - in fact for this very reason I've decided that my show of preference is the Doc Marten. |
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Post by cherylm on May 1, 2012 0:40:10 GMT -7
Oh dear...a shoe conversation! I'm still working on building a wardrobe of shoes that are (A) comfortable, (B) fir well and (C) are at least a LITTLE BIT stylish. It's a struggle.........sigh.........
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Post by allenuk on May 1, 2012 2:09:53 GMT -7
Cherylm.
I went through that phase, too. I had my old hiking boots, several pairs of trainers (not sure what you call them over there), pairs of lounge shoes, and so on. None of them worked properly - and eventually, due to a problem with what they laughingly call my 'good' foot, I couldn't even wear the sodding hiking boots, which was a pain.
Now, I've conveyed them all to the recycling bin, apart from 2 pairs of these wide-heeled shoes, and an old pair of shiney black orthotic shoes which I use when I'm steam-cleaning the decking (as they get soaked!)
But maybe you have better luck, which of course I wish you...
A.
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Post by ann- on May 1, 2012 2:25:54 GMT -7
Had a phase like that few months ago .... had been wearing the same style/make shoes for few years, diff colours that did for everything and no probs, unfortunately the manufacturers changed the style and heel height which mucked me up a bit. As am bilateral, it wasn't so much the comfortability aspect, more walking right .... and I bought a very similar pair from another shoe manufacturer but I just couldn't walk in, my prosthetist worked out that it was just the depth in the shoe between the heel bit and platform and gave me some heel inserts which worked a treat and mean that I can still switch back to the old ones should I want to.
Noticed that 'styles' have changed in the shops, some styles are easier to accommodate than others. But was getting to the point of thinking I wouldn't be able to find anything at all.
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Post by allenuk on May 1, 2012 3:31:43 GMT -7
Yes, it's a real pain when you buy precisely the same pair of shoes that used to work fine, and find out that they've changed them, just enough to screw up your prosthetic. I had a pair like that a few years back, which is why when I DO find a pair that work, I buy a second pair, just to give me a bit longer before I have to start the same wearying process all over again.
Still, it gives you something else to think about, rather than how badly your socket fits, doesn't it.
A
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Post by ann- on May 1, 2012 23:55:34 GMT -7
Yes, it's a real pain when you buy precisely the same pair of shoes that used to work fine, and find out that they've changed them, just enough to screw up your prosthetic. I had a pair like that a few years back, which is why when I DO find a pair that work, I buy a second pair, just to give me a bit longer before I have to start the same wearying process all over again. Still, it gives you something else to think about, rather than how badly your socket fits, doesn't it. A Lol ..... suppose thats the case Allen. |
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Post by kapteenkoukku on Feb 24, 2013 12:28:39 GMT -7
I am now having Otto Bock foot, both on my every day walking prosthesis and the bathing leg.
And no more having problems in buying shoes.
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Post by ann- on Feb 25, 2013 0:46:26 GMT -7
Actually now sorted out the shoes which I spoke about on the ladies page,did have to take the heels down lower though, but got something that I liked.
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