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Post by snowyh on Sept 6, 2009 6:56:33 GMT -7
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mitchee
Female Member 
LBKA - 2006
Posts: 55
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Post by mitchee on Sept 6, 2009 11:07:16 GMT -7
Wow! Thanks for sharing.
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ann58
Female Member
Posts: 278
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Post by ann58 on Sept 6, 2009 12:00:03 GMT -7
WOW!! Helen, will this arm be available to you? I certainly hope so.  |
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Post by tedatrowercpo on Sept 6, 2009 20:28:42 GMT -7
That talk was from 2007. The arm Dean Kamen is developing is just one of the efforts in the DARPA "Revolutionizing Prosthetics" program. More information is available if you search that phrase. Here is one link to get you started. www.darpa.mil/Docs/prosthetics_f_s3_200807180945042.pdf |
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Post by cherylm on Sept 6, 2009 23:07:05 GMT -7
I've seen a few video demos of Items in the DARPA program...they all strike me as mind-boggling in what they've been able to develop! Thanks for the links, Helen and Ted!
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Post by stonecutter on Sept 8, 2009 7:21:38 GMT -7
This is positively amazing. My wife and I were glued to the laptop screen watching this video. This is what you call progress.
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Post by snowyh on Sept 11, 2009 17:27:24 GMT -7
WOW!! Helen, will this arm be available to you? I certainly hope so. Honestly, Ann, I get along just fine with the one arm (despite having carpal tunnel syndrome & shoulder bursitis/tendinitis). Because I have such a high level of amputation, the prostheses available to me are heavier, more uncomfortable & less functional than for those who have more to work with (i.e. a stump). If I were to have even a Kamen pros, it would likely spend a lot of time on the shelf. But thanks for the nice thought! Helen Right Forequarter Amputee |
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Post by bluedogz on Sept 12, 2009 8:13:27 GMT -7
Stonecutter: This is what you call progress.
With respect, Stonecutter, it isn't. This is what we call tax dollars being thrown at whiz-bang technology that THE PUBLIC CANNOT HAVE. I will call it progress when the standard of care and equipment for my upper ex prosthesis rivals that of a Rheo Knee or C-leg. Till then I will keep nubbing my way through.
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Post by stonecutter on Sept 23, 2009 10:09:31 GMT -7
Oh, I don't know. At least they're looking for solutions. For now, it's definitely out of reach for 'regular' guys, but for now the research is expensive and prototypes are expensive. I asked my prosthetist about this particular arm, and apparently it's not "connected" like this arm is. [The Glenrose Hospital in Edmonton is where my prosthetist works out of...] These prototypes ARE definitely stupid-expensive and not entirely in the price range of everyday amputees, but neither were microwave ovens, LCD displays, or DVD players. Here's hoping that a breakthrough is made, mass production will be possible and the technology is finally made available to arm amputees. |
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ampgk
New Member
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Post by ampgk on Sept 23, 2009 18:22:44 GMT -7
These prototypes ARE definitely stupid-expensive and not entirely in the price range of everyday amputees, but neither were microwave ovens, LCD displays, or DVD players. Here's hoping that a breakthrough is made, mass production will be possible and the technology is finally made available to arm amputees. I don't believe that's a fair comparison/assumption. There's a difference, and it's that consumer electronics devices such as microwave ovens and DVD players can be marketed to hundreds of millions while upper-extremity prosthetics can not. If it were a disease, the incidence of upper-extremity amputations would place it in the category of an orphan disease because the numbers are so small. IOW, don't hold your breath waiting for mass-produced upper-extremity prosthetics, 'cause it isn't going to happen unless someone builds a mass-market anthropomorphic robot whose arms could be adapted for prosthetic use. Changing focus for a minute, I toured Northwestern's prosthetics research labs (they were pioneers in myos) back in '73 and got to see some of the work they were doing, which included integrating the then-new microprocessor into prosthetics. If Dean Kamen's group could develop the Luke arm in two years or so, it really makes you wonder what's been going on at places like Northwestern for the last thirty-five years. |
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Post by tedatrowercpo on Sept 23, 2009 19:57:06 GMT -7
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Post by stonecutter on Sept 24, 2009 11:56:20 GMT -7
My point was that what seems expensive and in outer space now, might one day become common place in the future. Example? Carbon fibre. I recall a conversation with my prosthetist about carbon fibre. He said that there was a thought when it first was made available that it was too expensive, too out of reach. And look at it now. It's in all sorts of prosthetics. I know that there's a whole pile of it right now in my shoe. 30 years ago the only place you'd find it was on an aircraft or on the space shuttle. I was casted for my previous prosthesis using the old plaster cast method. I was recently casted by lasers and reflective dots. Instead of making a mold with a plast cast of my stump, a CNC mill is carving out a model of it. Is this not an example of progress? You all can call me an idiot if you want (I have a thick skin  ) but I truly believe that progress is being made - - Just not as quickly as we'd like to see. It might take 1,000 bad ideas to produce a good one. It's just nice to see that SOMEONE is working on this stuff. If you follow Ted's link, and watch the videos off to the side, I found this to be inspirational, especially where the bilateral gentleman speaks near the end of the video about one day finding todays "cutting edge" prototypes in the Smithsonian. Video. |
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ampgk
New Member
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Post by ampgk on Sept 25, 2009 2:56:24 GMT -7
My point was that what seems expensive and in outer space now, might one day become common place in the future. How about a relevant real-world counterexample? C-legs. Bock's end-user brochure, dated 2009, says 25,000 have been fitted worldwide since the 1999 introduction. That's a pretty small number in the scheme of things. |
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Post by stonecutter on Sept 25, 2009 6:47:20 GMT -7
Okay - I give up. You guys got me. This kind of research and development is a terrible idea! What a waste of time and money! |
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Post by bluedogz on Sept 26, 2009 5:27:44 GMT -7
Wow, did I get misunderstood or what!
All I meant was that this research, by itself, is nothing more than cool. I'm concerned about the lack of attention to the means to deliver these devices to the end users- this includes care protocols, insurance carriers, and everything in between. Without that, Dean may as well build just one arm and deliver it straight to the Smithsonian because nobody will ever see it.
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Post by swisswuff on Oct 26, 2009 2:38:45 GMT -7
Otto Bock apparently will release their "Michelangelo hand" in 2010 at the Leipzig OT fair. They do bring that hand to the market. I had a series of e-mails with one of the developers at Otto Bock Wien.
As far as I understood that was at least partly developed in conjunction with the DARPA project. One problem that I see is that function ('only' two electrodes just as the current myoelectric arms) is not that sophisticated but price is somewhat prohibitive which makes it somewhat hard to "justify" the expense towards insurances. Were functions far more sophisticated then I could argue that I can now do things I could not before (do versus do not). In reality I would be able to do things just a tad bit better (rather than there being a clear yes/no delineation). But, to wait and see.
I also participate in a robot hand research study at the Artificial Intelligence Lab at the Uni Zuerich here. But in terms of stable wrist units for body powered arms, we had to build our own :-) Problem is there that some researchers don't know how to follow up with bringing things to the market. I now brought some of the researchers in direct contact with a mechanical production guy and see whether that at least helps build more lasting prototypes.
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) but I truly believe that progress is being made - - Just not as quickly as we'd like to see. It might take 1,000 bad ideas to produce a good one. It's just nice to see that SOMEONE is working on this stuff.