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Post by barclay on Jul 24, 2011 21:11:20 GMT -7
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Post by oneblueleg on Jul 28, 2011 2:43:39 GMT -7
Difficult and sensitive subject... but here goes...
I think it's wrong that he can compete. He is different, no question... what would happen if technology got good enough that he started beating everyone? The rules that would need to be written to control what he is and isn't allowed to wear would be impossible to write.
It's fine while he's just an average performer, but I think it can only cause problems in the future.
Secondly, although I am seriously impressed with his abilities, this kind of extraordinary performance of an amputee does little to inform the public as to the real problems facing amputees in normal society. His success makes people that don't know any better (which is most people) think that being a bilateral BK amputee is a walk in the park. Let alone the fact they don't consider there's any difference between an AK and BK (through no fault of their own).
So I think it's bitter sweet that he's running in the Olympics...
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Post by allenuk on Jul 28, 2011 6:46:20 GMT -7
Points taken, oneblue, and you're right, it does complicate and cloud the issue, but...
The day I see a queue of able-bodied athletes waiting to have their legs cut off so that they can run faster, that's the day I'll see a real problem.
Allen.
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Post by oneblueleg on Jul 28, 2011 7:37:58 GMT -7
Points taken, oneblue, and you're right, it does complicate and cloud the issue, but... The day I see a queue of able-bodied athletes waiting to have their legs cut off so that they can run faster, that's the day I'll see a real problem. Allen. It'll be too late then, you'll have throwers with one arm throwing javelins out of the stadium and long jumpers clearing the sand... it'll ruin athletics and they will have to start an 'able bodied' category... or special games for the able bodied... |
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Post by allenuk on Jul 28, 2011 12:43:30 GMT -7
Quick, cut off me head and give me a bionic brain, so I can think of a reply.
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Post by barclay on Jul 28, 2011 22:34:21 GMT -7
The points are well taken Oneblue and ones I've thought about. My take on it is that passing laws on what-if scenarios is a dangerous thing. As things stand at the moment, there is no definitive answer to the question of how the blades compare to flesh and bone in terms of performance, but in non-olympic situations, my impression is that the amputee runners are on a par with non-amputees. If the technology develops to the point where it provides an advantage, then that situation can be handled. I doubt though there there are enough amputee runners of that caliber to drive the development much further.
There is a S. African swimmer who competed without a prosthesis in the Olympics and the discussion around her is if she should be allowed to swim disabled - wrap your head around that!
As far as your second point, about the problems of being an amputee not being addressed by his being allowed to compete, of course you are right. But the problems are not all there is to being an amputee. I think the risk of creating a false impression is worth the benefits of exposure. The false impressions can be corrected, but the familiarity (the comfort level) will stay.
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Post by oneblueleg on Jul 29, 2011 2:06:49 GMT -7
The swimmer thing I can't get my head around... there's clearly no advantage in having a piece of your body missing in that scenario! I appreciate your arguments, though when you say "If the technology develops to the point where it provides an advantage, then that situation can be handled", I'm not sure I can agree. I think you've hit the nail on the head. How exactly do you determine that? It can be seen already from the many arguments offered by both sides to let Oscar get this far. It's not easily understandable when, whether and how an amputee may be getting an advantage. Time will tell I guess, though I think we are heading down a slippery road. It may help to view it from an able bodied point of view... if there's a risk or an argument an amputee may gain advantage arguments will ensue and damage the purity of the sport. It's be a tecnological argument and detract from the individual's abilities. On the second point, I wholeheartedly accept your point of view  |
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Post by oneblueleg on Jul 29, 2011 2:07:41 GMT -7
Quick, cut off me head and give me a bionic brain, so I can think of a reply.  Good luck with that! |
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Post by stinker373 on Aug 15, 2011 11:23:35 GMT -7
It will be interesting to see waht society says about it. Ther are pro's and cons ..
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Post by stonecutter on Jul 10, 2012 7:15:43 GMT -7
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Post by ann- on Jul 11, 2012 0:59:46 GMT -7
I partly agree with OBL in that I too am impressed with his abilities, though I don't really know how much the technology replaces or perhaps adds to the parts OP has missing, I am sure though it must take a lot of 'himself' to be able to run in this way and that the technology doesn't "do it all" in a similar way to how it is for all of us using everyday prosthetics.
I am not sure whether its wrong or not that he can compete, got to admit I find the para-olympics slightly confusing anyway, with the different classes etc etc., as far as I know OP has spent his life wearing prosthetics, I imagine he doesn't really see himself as disabled, just wants to race and would like to put himself up against able bodied competitors, how much advantage or disadvantage the technology gives him against able bodied I wouldn't know, though against those with disabilities, depending on the disability I imagine it would give some advantages, suppose the obvious would be for him to race against others on blades also, but again there would be different amp levels, might probably defeat the object of what OP wants to compete against etc. etc.
Like OBL though, I am not really sure personally how much his achievements help the ordinary, particularly, bilateral amputee .... I know that OP started off running on ordinary prosthetics but most amputees we see through the media are high profile , wealthy and seem to have unlimited access to things like rehab and private or top of the range prosthetics for various sports, lifestyle, adaptations etc. etc.
The problem is that not only the general public, but also the policy makers now see the loss of a limb as no big deal, one of our government ministers recently said something to the effect that losing a limb didn't have an adverse affect on that persons mobility or words to that effect! It now seems to be considered that 'the technology' gets people back to normal mobility. Which over here in the UK is causing problems regarding the welfare system, benefits, etc. and also a split in the tiers of treatment different sectors of amputees are being given. And being a bilateral b/k myself, know, that as OBL says "its not a walk in the park".
Having said all that though, although the majority of people with limb-loss are probably of a more mature age, there are many children without limbs who are growing up and want every opportunity, so thinking back to when I was that age, seeing someone like OP would have really inspired me of what I might be able to achieve and I read about a lot of younger amputees who want blades and want to take part in quite diverse sports ... unfortunately also read the disappointment posts from amps who can't get hold of the prosthetics or access to do what they want to do and for some in the UK that is just getting a prosthesis they can walk in!
Don't quite understand though why the swimmer is not allowed to compete in the disability class, but without one leg she would definitely be at a disadvantage. Can't get my head around that one, unless she prefers to compete against non-disabled.
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Post by barclay on Jul 11, 2012 20:37:03 GMT -7
I get the feeling that some non-amputees are more comfortable with us if they can pity us. If we appear not to suffer (all the time), they become uncomfortable.
I was impressed with a BBC show I saw in February about the Para-olympics. They were presented not as a second class poor man's Olympics, but as a competition among people with non-standard physiology and they showed the training that the competitor's put in and they sacrifice they made in other aspects of their lives to get to that point.
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Post by ann- on Jul 11, 2012 23:56:39 GMT -7
I get the feeling that some non-amputees are more comfortable with us if they can pity us. If we appear not to suffer (all the time), they become uncomfortable. I was impressed with a BBC show I saw in February about the Para-olympics. They were presented not as a second class poor man's Olympics, but as a competition among people with non-standard physiology and they showed the training that the competitor's put in and they sacrifice they made in other aspects of their lives to get to that point. You could be right, but I don't think generally people 'get' amputees at all, unless they know one. Got to admit it must be confusing for them to see someone walking or whatever one minute, then the next sitting in a w/c without legs ... as a bilateral who wears her legs covered, I quite often go from looking very able, without so much of a turn of a head, to very disabled, in seconds. |
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ann58
Female Member 
Posts: 278
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Post by ann58 on Jul 13, 2012 13:30:13 GMT -7
The thing I worry about is most amputees can not do what Pistorius can...{we aren't able}. I certainly do not want people thinking being an amp. is easy as he makes it out. Most aren't amputees that early is life...HE HAS KNOWN NOTHING ELSE}.....Do you all understand what I am trying to say?
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Post by cherylm on Jul 13, 2012 20:29:11 GMT -7
Yeah, I see what you're getting at, Ann. But then again. "most" able-bodied folks can't do what an able-bodied Olympic athlete can do, either. I tend to think that the more people come to see that amputees can have a wide range of skills and abilities--just like anyone else--it will eventually be beneficial to amputees in general.
Back when I first lost my leg, Pistorius was really starting to push for the opportunity to race against able-bodied runners. I'd actually been aware of him before I became an amputee...but I didn't really understand the situation in full. So I've spent a fair amount of time following the various arguments and the tests that have been conducted in order to try and determine whether being a bilateral BKA constitutes an "advantage" or a "disadvantage" for a sprinter. It seems that the majority of the scientific community has come to the conclusion that Oscar's blades do not provide an unfair advantage...what I've noticed myself, watching the videos of his "performance tests," is that the blades do seem to give him a better energy return than a standard human foot might, but that his STARTS are so slow and labored that they seem to offset any advantage his prosthesis-assisted stride might give him. In other words, he's basically just a very good runner.
If that fact can be presented as part of the coverage of his attempts to compete in the able-bodied Olympic events--that there a "good" and "bad" things about living with a pair of prostheses, that some amputees can adjust to an amazing degree in meeting mobility challenges while others (like yours truly) are utter klutzes who can't run with one prosthesis, couldn't run with two "normal" legs, and would not be much inclined to try and run with a pair of Cheetah blades--then it may well help the able-bodied world get their heads around the fact that your basic amputee is truly "just another person."
At least, that's what I'm hoping for!
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Good luck with that!
